everything wrong with free software
"obedience breeds foolishness"
=> dividing-things-pointlessly-and-inaccurately-along-age-lines.html dividing-things-pointlessly-and-inaccurately-along-age-lines
*originally posted:* nov 2021
figosdev got very upset about something you said about this chemical
everything that happened afterwards seems connected to this
and then all ties broke down with other people online
not connected to us
maybe mSG did mess up some people's lives very badly
Until now I hardly even knew what that was
Mon 15:48:30 │ MinceR │ maybe
Mon 15:48:42 │ MinceR │ maybe some people are sensitive to it
had mincer chosen to be the voice of reason about a year ago, rather than play a minor role in roys trolling, i still probably wouldnt be writing for muckrights anymore.
roy still seems to actually believe it all comes down to this-- one minor dispute in irc? after years of collaboration and exchanges?
seriously? i mean, that doesnt make any sense at all, but that was his argument-- i am completely irrational, because one tiny disagreement over "nutrition" as he put it, turned 2+ years of collaboration and acquaintance into months and months of strife.
its just as stupid as it sounds. the thing is, i told him (nearly a year ago, more than once) that wasnt what it was about.
roy has chosen to ignore this fact over and over again.
i cant tell you WHY he insists this is all about msg-- it never was, it never will be. i tried to tell him it wasnt. he should be asking himself why he insists it is... maybe if he says so enough times, it will somehow magically come true.
similarly, i have wondered many times how eric raymond could try to hijack free software, WHILE watching his own (fake) movement get co-opted, exploited and converted into a weapon by the same monopolistic corporations he claimed to be a "nightmare" to, and he never commented on this. how could it even happen though? and i think it comes down to his ego.
i dont think roy is capable of (fully) processing the version of the story that is much closer to the truth: i was tired of his shit, and one condescending (three way) exchange where i expected not to be dismissed so completely and casually (this doesnt mean i demanded anybody agree, but there are countless ways to disagree and i thought we were on better terms-- though im not sure why, other than an excess of assuming good faith) but here is the version roy has harped on about for an entire year now:
i left because:
* a single argument with mincer
* which had NOTHING to do with roy
* who didnt even know what msg was
* and because of this, i TOTALLY SNAPPED and started (randomly) cutting off ties with everyone
and what actually happened was this:
* a very minor argument with mincer was the last gesture necessary
* to make me completely aware of how things generally had been for a year or two
* where i had been subject to manipulation, dishonest and (utter) bullshit for a very long time
* to encourage me to do research and other things for roy under false pretenses
* so he could then smear and misrepresent me in a campaign lasting for months
roy lied about me, again and again, to people i knew.
he lied about me to one of my personal heroes.
he also made up things that personal hero never said, which ive caught him and called him on.
and DESPITE ALL THIS, i told him-- look, i dont want to fight with you. leave me the fuck alone.
i started this very website after roys smear campaign did not stop.
it went on through the holiday season.
roy is a fucking arsehole.
mincer is just an amusing misanthrope. but he IS amusing. and the "misanthrope" part is simply a fact, i cant imagine he would deny it.
mincer has also been warning roy about systemd since BEFORE 2014. and roy has lied about it several times over the years, including to me. i can quote.
sure, roy finally (half a decade later) admits that systemd is a problem. one of many.
i could say more. i should say more.
i did not cut off ties with everyone. roy is mistaken about that, but i wont give any hints.
there are several i could give. the thing is, i was LESS connected to the community BEFORE roy turned on me.
for someone who cut off ties with everyone, i am more involved NOW than i was THEN.
only my involvement is not with muckrights. i have said in my own articles, written in 2021, that there are useful things that muckrights covers-- sometimes.
it doesnt change the fact that roy is a liar, a manipulative and backstabbing piece of shit-- and that he misleads as much as he informs.
to help roy, put simply, is to be exploited under false pretenses.
take it from someone who spent two years being suckered.
as for msg, i dont care if a study says its perfectly safe. mincer is smart enough to see right through the faulty assumption.
i didnt say it was "not safe". and you can find studies that say similar regarding lead and other toxins. which i tried to explain a year ago, but instead i was laughed at. and roy just sat there. hes a dick. its more about the fact that hes a dick, than anything else. but i suppose theres a lot more to it, sure-- just nothing to do with msg. (nothing to do with derek taylor either, but ive refuted that bullshit countless times as well).
roy will never admit he knows better than this.
but he knows better. he has the facts-- he just doesnt give a shit.
when i told roy last year, that this had nothing to do with msg and to leave me out of his trolling, he has continued harping about this all this time.
doesnt he realise how much it is the opposite of intellectual honesty, to talk about someone behaving in a completely irrational way "FLEW INTO A COMPLETE RAGE" (that too was a fabrication, i was impolite, but id written articles that were angrier than what i said over email and even THOSE were not written in a complete rage) WHILST subjecting them to MONTHS of what amounts to playground taunting?
### and when someone is lying to people and trying to get them to join his campaign against you, is it even slightly intellectually honest to accuse you of irrationally, randomly cutting off ties with those people?
there was nothing random or irrational about it. i was dealing with someone who had pretended to be a friend (at one point, years ago, i think he actually used the word "family") and i had no need for people joining his effort to throw me under the bus or otherwise be manipulative. i gave them more chances than anybody had to. but i wasnt indiscriminate in practice-- far from it.
bullying people and trying to push their buttons and trying to publicly shame them (repeatedly, over things that are actually made up) is something roy expected me to cave to.
instead, i stood up to him. i took allies and i rejected people who were similarly shallow to the person who attacked me.
roy is a coward. but hes fucking persistent, ill give him that. hes going to double down on this until it warps the fabric of space time, but it tells you a bit about the world he lives in.
he would do the same to you, if you gave him a reason and he had no more use for you. and hes still telling people its about msg. ive written entire articles about what its really about.
do you know how many times hes said hes never seen this website?
or to how many people?
roy is a fellow that skirts the truth when it suits him, and thats putting it nicely.
though my favourite "big lie" of his is this one:
another former muckrights contributor says:
> How do I get repaid for this? Muckrights announced my paper in the most misleading way I can think of. Instead of clearly linking to the PDF at the start of their derivative works, Ron just shoved the PDF link in the most obscure place I can think of. This is the kind of integrity and treatment I got from Muckrights, after how much respect I gave it as a source in my paper.
and ever since ive left, ive watched roy pretend "we" wrote things he had no input on. NONE. not only does he borrow credit for them, he twists them around and misuses them to "support" things he wants to say that they simply do not support. but as imaginary co-author, he doesnt have to prove they support what he says-- since he implies co-authorship, support is implied!
but lets go on and pretend that this is, what did he say just today?
> everything that happened afterwards seems connected to this
right-- i ONLY take it personally that roy co-opts my research and twists it to support things it doesnt say because "some argument about nutrition".
and the ONLY reason i have any problem with a ridiculous smear campaign lasting months (as payment for years of contributions and pleading with roy to leave me alone during the holiday season) i mean, all of that would be TOTALLY OKAY, *EXCEPT* of course, for "some argument about nutrition".
i dont know, but if someone did that to you, and they really believed that the only reason you took offense was because you disagreed with mincer about msg-- you might think they were a little bit clueless.
or maybe just a bit narcissistic. what do they call it when you can fuck someone over and lie to them repeatedly, and still everything is their fault?
maybe its just the msg talking. yeah, thats gotta be what it is.
schestowitz > The point, of course, is that was my intention before-- to walk
away, Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > and leave you alone. But I think you were being dishonest and
unfair. Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > Was it unintentional? That's better. I *still* think it was
dishonest Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > and unfair. Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > I intend to be done here. I'd prefer sooner, rather than later. I
really Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > hope that if you also prefer sooner, I've given you enough to go
on that Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > you can simply leave me out of this. That works for me.
schestowitz > Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > Not interested in fighting Techrights, just interested in the
door. If Dec 22 18:03
schestowitz > you want to keep me around, give me something I really have to
respond to. Dec 22 18:03
but weeks later: (and on a number of occasions)
schestowitz__ I hope he decided to come back Jan 13 19:47
schestowitz__ he insulted Oliva and myself, sort of... Jan 13 19:48
schestowitz__ rage directed at everyone at the same time Jan 13 19:48
schestowitz__ including distrotube, derek taylor Jan 13 19:48
vZS1_2 That's unfortunate Jan 13 19:48
there was never any rage (or anger, or anything like it) at derek taylor. i simply wasnt interested in watching him anymore. there was no rage at all in the way i expressed this, either. (there are even transcripts-- im not the one who made them).
the story about "dt" was *made up*. then it was shared with anyone who would mention anything vaguely related (sometimes at a stretch) to anything id ever said or done.
then in march, (i made fun of this on april 1) he started telling people i had "come back" to muckrights, which was *also* made up.
schestowitz fig is sort of back, albeit too shy to admit that he wants to be
back after insulting a whole bunch of us (RMS and Oliva too) in a totally
unwarranted fashion Mar 26 10:17
Techrights-sec well I'm glad he's back Mar 26 10:37
schestowitz too proud though to apologise to us Mar 26 10:37
i guess thats one way of putting it.
im not kidding about this-- the version of me that roy shares with people is *fictional*. and its his fiction, not something i came up with.
he has not relented. a goal he has pursued for nearly a year (it is the holiday season again) is to impose this fictional version of me over the real one. why do that?
but i still exist. and i still speak for myself, despite his efforts. ive even found other things to work on, besides simply fighting his relentless goal of rewriting history.
you can show roy this article, watch him read it, and when hes done--
hes still going to pull the same bullshit line about the whole thing. facts may play a minor role at muckrights, though theyre second-class citizens at best.
by the way, in january that vZS1 fellow was the latest person roy was trying to "groom" for helping him out.
theres always some person hes focused on primarily, trying to impress them and get something out of them.
im most likely to come up as a topic when hes trying to impress such a "newbie" (new to muckrights, not necessarily to tech or free software).
ive watched him do it since then, ive watched him do it recently, and he will do it again when the next one shows up.
its unfortunate that this sort of thing is surprisingly common in what we do-- that is, in the tech world. this is one of the ways that open source imposes itself on free software too, but its not just open source. this exploitative personality type may sum up open source (which is why ive written about it for years) but it also predates it.
tech companies want to control people, and many people want to control people.
its not the reason im mentioning it, but its still a really good example of how that control is imposed on people. i said before roy even turned on me, in an article for muckrights-- that lies are one of the favourite weapons of bullies. you certainly see the way that lies have dismantled the free software movement-- where bullshit is now king.
i dont blame you for thinking the relationship to this is tenuous. the thing is, it really isnt. this sort of thing is commonplace. they did it to stallman, they did it to esr and torvalds (but esr and torvalds are guilty of the same themselves) and stallman says of open source: "they treated me like shit". thats because open source is a method of exploiting free software (and authors) on behalf of monopolies-- free software liberates, and open source rounds everything (and everyone) back up and gives it all "back" to the corporations.
and lies are the primary weapon. the whole idea that a select few can "own" something like adding numbers, or the alphabet, or "rounded corners" is a ridiculous conceit, but this is the sort of thinking that (literal) cults are built on.
stallmans had it much worse, clearly. but its exactly the same type of bullshit, utilised for exactly the same purpose. its the same game being played-- only the degree of it is different.
as a bonus, if you do figure out (as i did, years after the fact) what roy is pulling here, youll also have a much more intimate understanding of what the hell happened to the entire free software movement.
truth CAN win, but only if it is RELENTLESS in the face of ongoing bullshit. dont think liars wont say "i want to set the record straight". like theyre going to lie and NOT tell you its really the truth!
lies are built on truths or they dont even work-- but lies are shallow, and so are liars. everything roy does to me makes perfect sense once you realise that hes a corporation-- or acts like one.
these soulless edifices impose their fictional version of humanity (and themselves) over the real one, in an effort to supplant and subjugate it.
why? so we will serve their emptiness, instead of humanity. you think they wont borrow our identities in order to accomplish that? our identities are a key part of what makes us REAL-- stealing them is the perfect disguise, for a fake. this is as true for an organisation using stallman like a hand puppet, as it is for your piece of shit boss who takes all the credit for your ideas-- after pushing you out of the company (or fighting against your promotion so they dont lose access to your talents). but stealing and trying to dictate your identity wont make such people real. in your own hands, your identity has life. in theirs, its just another weekend at bernies.
thus i stand by what i said: this is EXACTLY what happened to the free software movement. its been exploited and subjugated, by liars and fakes who act just like corporations.
the fight is the same fight, the means of fighting are the same means-- the problems do not differ and neither do the solutions.
pit relentless truth against relentless lies and you WILL win, eventually. at the moment too many people have given in. many more are waiting for some sort of permission, from people who pretend to give a shit. the people pretending to give a shit are doing as much to hold people back as they are to help. first they pretend to acknowledge you, then later when you actually do something about it, wait wait wait hold up, lets not be hasty!
whether its controlled opposition or just co-opting the fight, some people (like esr, i think) are doing it purely to suit their ego-- and truth itself can be sacrificed for that cause, like it was in march. i am still looking for another explanation for esr, if you have one-- i have been for years now, and each year that i fail to find one i become more confident about this. but either way this problem still holds true for other examples.
roy HAS the facts. theyre all over his website. but the main thing he uses them for is to prop up something else.
and open source has the goose, but its sole objective is the golden eggs-- so you always know what its going to try next. is it going to care for the goose? sure... if you believe that.